A Surviving Facts Blog
I was planning to publish a blog on the impact of grocery store conglomerates and price-fixing but more recent news pulled me away. As the Trump inauguration approaches, more and more male CEOs and corporations are pandering to the anti-progress rhetoric the right has brought with Trump’s second coming.
The latest is Mark Zuckerberg. I’m sure you heard he canceled fact-checking, enabling a return to extremism much like Musk has with Twitter/X. What you may not have heard is that this decision was followed by his ending DEI at Meta. And then the Z-man appeared on Joe Rogan- all in the space of a week.
Clearly, Zuckerberg is on a mission. A mission to return “masculine energy” to corporations.
The Joe Rogan show transcript is something to read. I encourage you to do so if you can bear the “bro” attitude of the entire exchange. It begins with discussion around “censorship” and the “Russian collusion hoax,” a view espoused by the far right. (Oh, the irony of discussing censorship when the right is banning books in many states.) Zuckerberg then covers Covid and what he deems as “massive overstepping,” another conservative word for policies requiring corporations to be accountable for their actions. Zuckerberg rambles through questionable Covid claims, including suppressing that people “would be ok” without the vaccine. Here’s an excerpt:
“And also, you weren’t killing people. This is, this is the thing about all of this. It’s like they suppressed so much information about things that people should be doing regardless of whether or not you believe in the vaccine.
Regardless. Put that aside. Metabolic health is of the utmost importance in your everyday life.
Whether there’s a pandemic or there’s not. And there’s a lot of things that you can do that can help you recover from illness. It prevents illnesses.
It makes your body more robust and healthy. It strengthens your immune system. And they were suppressing all that information.”
From The Joe Rogan Experience: #2255 – Mark Zuckerberg, Jan 10, 2025
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/2255-mark-zuckerberg/id360084272?i=1000683499141&r=890
This material may be protected by copyright.
Zuckerberg and Rogan don’t discuss what those “metabolic” strengtheners are, so I have no way to assess the validity of this statement. I can say that Zuckerberg is supporting the questionable credibility of an anti-vaccine approach, in spite of a preponderance of evidence to show that while vaccines do have side effects, they also prevent illness in the vast majority of people and prevent the spread and mutation of deadly diseases (Science.org). He also seems to ignore that 7 million people have died from Covid, far more than the flu and that Covid patients have a 35% higher hospitalization mortality rate than the flu.
Read the Science article linked above and review the chart below if you’d like to know more about the benefits of vaccines.
The entire Z-Ro bro conversation is devoid of any accountability from Zuckerberg for creating a system that has allowed extremism, misinformation and hatred to flourish through engagement-generating algorithms. His attitude is more, “yeah, bro, it was all so confusing. I didn’t know what to do” (these are my words and not a quote). Not once does Zuckerberg admit to building a tool that has created siloed viewpoints- echo chambers- and developed an enormous political divide between parties. He positions himself more as a hapless observer of elements beyond his control.
Zuckerberg also complains about the scrutiny of social media following the 2016 and 2020 elections. He frets over being investigated, saying:
“Really, when you think about it, the US government should be defending its companies, not be the tip of the spear attacking its companies.”
From The Joe Rogan Experience: #2255 – Mark Zuckerberg, Jan 10, 2025
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/2255-mark-zuckerberg/id360084272?i=1000683499141&r=1418
This material may be protected by copyright.
In other words, in the US, our governmental approach should be unfettered capitalism without accountability. The US should allow “its companies” to operate as they want rather than be held to higher values. This viewpoint is being pushed forward by the incoming president and the far right, complaining repeatedly about government “overstepping” while also stepping on women’s rights.
The Z-Ro discussion parrots a lot of far right propaganda. Rogan states, for example, that the Biden administration removed Trump from social media because “you’ve decided that he incited a riot.” Many Americans actually watched this occur on live television. About fact-checking, Zuckerberg says “X and Twitter just did it better.”
Zuckerberg also discusses his love of and commitment to Jiu-Jitsu, with lots of comments from Rogan on how big Zuckerberg’s neck has gotten. Zuckerberg brags a bit about bringing in martial art experts to personally train him- lots of cool dude discussions about these martial arts luminaries. Zuckerberg trains daily and regularly engages in matches, called “voluntary adversity,” to fulfill his aggression need.
“…you have to manage your mind while you’re moving your body, you’re managing anxieties, you’re trying to figure out when to hit the gas and when to control position and recover. There’s so much going on in training that applies to virtually any stressful thing that you’ll ever experience in your life and along with it, you get this skill where you can kill people.
You shouldn’t kill people. Let me be clear. I’m not saying it’s a good thing to kill people.
I’m definitely not. But I’m saying it’s a good thing to, if someone’s trying to kill you and they absolutely can’t because you could kill them easy, that’s way better. The way better situation to be in.”
From The Joe Rogan Experience: #2255 – Mark Zuckerberg, Jan 10, 2025
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/2255-mark-zuckerberg/id360084272?i=1000683499141&r=4376
This material may be protected by copyright.
I’m not making fun of martial arts. I have personally seen the discipline, self control and logical thinking it provides. It’s a great form of fitness. But I am sharing this to lead to the next Zuckerberg realization, as a result of his Jiu-Jitsu training (and hunting- just read the transcript).
He thinks the “corporate world is pretty like culturally neutered.” Growing up with sisters and having daughters, he’s surrounded by feminine energy. His observes that “masculine energy is good” and “corporate culture was trying to get away from it.” He misses that capital M energy. He says:
“And I think having a culture that like celebrates the aggression a bit more has its own merits that are really positive. And that has been kind of a positive experience for me. Just like having a thing that I can just like do with my guy friends and like, and it’s just like, we just like beat each other a bit.”
From The Joe Rogan Experience: #2255 – Mark Zuckerberg, Jan 10, 2025
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/2255-mark-zuckerberg/id360084272?i=1000683499141&r=5509
This material may be protected by copyright.
Zuckerberg claims that we’ve made male energy toxic and swung too far away from it.
“And I just think we kind of swung culturally to that part of the spectrum, where it’s all like, okay, masculinity is toxic. We have to get rid of it completely. It’s like, no, both of these things are good.
It’s like you want feminine energy, you want masculine energy. I think that you’re going to have parts of society that have more of one or the other. I think that that’s all good.”
From The Joe Rogan Experience: #2255 – Mark Zuckerberg, Jan 10, 2025
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/2255-mark-zuckerberg/id360084272?i=1000683499141&r=5595
This material may be protected by copyright.
He’s talking Yin and Yang here- the necessity for both masculine and feminine energies to coexist. I agree with this concept. What I question, however, is the claim that all male energy has been deemed toxic and that corporate culture has been neutered. As a woman in the workforce who has had her breasts inappropriately touched, had female genitalia odor mentioned in a meeting ( where I was the only woman), have been labeled the B word for speaking out and have been shut down or man-splained more times than I can count… well, I’m wondering when corporate culture was “neutered.”
The stats back me up. Men still get paid more for jobs (the same jobs) than women do. More men lead companies. There are only 11% female CEOs of Fortune 500s, a whopping 1% increase- meaning they are overwhelmingly led by men. Men are more likely to make partner track, be promoted, get raises. And men are not criticized for confidence, relationship building or their expertise, while women are. Women are deemed arrogant rather than confident, trying to sleep/sneak/trick their way to the top or not as smart as men think we are. Women are talked over in meetings, left out of key connections or social opportunities (golf, anyone?), or sometimes simply ignored. I’m very experienced every one of these, and more.
What is Zuckerberg talking about?
He admits the fallacy of his assertion. He says, “I do think that if you’re a woman going into a company, it probably feels like it’s too masculine. It’s like there isn’t enough of the kind of the energy that you may naturally have, and it probably feels like there are all these things that are set up that are biased against you…” This is indeed how many women experience the workplace. And yet, Zuckerberg contradicts himself by promoting additional male energy as a solution. The logic doesn’t follow.
His admission is certainly true for me. As a petite woman with a relatively high pitched voice, I’ve actually gone through training to lower my voice register and appear more masculine. I’ve practiced wording that is more typical of men than women, and I’ve learned how to laugh like one of the guys when every meeting starts with football or basketball wins and losses. Doing all of this didn’t make me feel more equal. It made me feel more consciously different, more aware of what it takes to be male-like in business. And so while Zuckerberg accurately describes how women feel in the male-dominated corporate world, he panders to the far right notion of men as victims of equality efforts.
Zuckerberg’s claim of corporate culture swinging too far away from masculinity- “You have to be at least somewhat aggressive,” he says- ignores real lived experiences of women that are backed up by verifiable statistics. Let’s not forget, for example, that 75% of violent crime offenders in the US are men. More women are raped than men. And more women are victims of intimate partner violence than men, a type of crime that is 15% of all crime committed.
Given statistics like these, the claims Zuckerberg and other men are making about “swinging too far the other way” is not supported. Not by workplace facts. Not by crime facts. Not by social facts. Nada.
We are dealing with a feeling rather than a reality. As awareness of inequity and victimization of women has increased, a growing number of men are responding defensively, and, dare I say, emotionally. Google “how toxic masculinity affects men,” and you’ll find article after article on how men feel as if they cannot be themselves because of this awareness. Something is seriously off kilter about this response. When and how did toxic masculinity become conflated with regular masculinity? And how did discussing toxic masculinity become insulting to a lot of men?
Many men will say that feminism has done this. Or DEI thinking and programs. Those are easy scapegoats. No evidence supports this. Equality movements have revealed facts about women’s stagnant advancement and unequal pay. Issues such as harassment and rape are no longer disregarded. Conversations about women’s challenges have become mainstream. But now, in 2025, men are claiming we’ve gone too far. The progress pendulum is swinging back to women’s oppression. Many states are making laws to limit women’s equality- and succeeding. Women’s rights to bodily autonomy are being legislated in numerous states. Some states are discussing limiting women’s access to higher education or repealing their right to vote. Women have not yet achieved equality with men, but these actions certainly show that men still control and manage the narrative. The message is clear: men (overwhelmingly white men) don’t want to share the benefits of privilege. They are closing ranks.
This situation is made even more perilous with a sexual predator coming into office again. This sexual predator is selecting other sexual predators for cabinet positions or special projects. He also has loaded the Supreme Court with both men and women who support the patriarchal agenda. Women are being told the workplace, our society, our systems have become too feminine. And we are supposed to believe it. But here’s the deal: we women now know what equality looks like. We know progress. We understand there is room for all of us to stand together and move forward. We have seen the glory of a better future for ourselves and our daughters. We are not going back.
If you’d like Meta and Zuckerberg to experience the power women have, join Lights Out Meta by boycotting all Meta properties from January 19-26. Sometimes the most profound way to be heard is to say nothing at all.
I would love to hear from you, even if, especially if, you disagree. Perhaps we can bring back the American tradition of civilizedy debate. Please like and share this blog with others. Subscribe to receive it by email and go directly to the Walk the Moon website to peruse the full collection of articles and updates.
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